I'm really intrigued by the fact that all of Ötzi's tools were still there - not stolen by the person who killed him! Particularly that axe. I'm imagining different narratives about why the assault happened, and in so many of them it just doesn't make sense to leave behind something so useful and valuable.
And on the theory of Ötzi as a shepherd ... wouldn't he have a dog? Absence of evidence, yeah, but, sheep would have just walked away with a new owner, and a dog would absolutely have attacked the assailant and probably been killed, so the absence of evidence there is at least suggestive, isn't it?
I'm so, so fascinated by the glimpses of cultural and economic structures. My history interest is at least 60% a form of escapism from modern day politics :) but these glimpses of ancient politics, these wildly different ways humans have organized themselves, are really refreshing and a provoke to the imagination.
An excellent article! I too found it odd that as difficult as it was to create a copper axe it would not be taken. The one hour movie Iceman is definitely worth seeing. I found it on Amazon prime.
At a certain point, it feels impossible to speculate more though - I mean maybe Ötzi was one of a group - he was ambushed and killed and his group scattered, but the assailants didn't feel safe staying to loot the body? Maybe taking the belongings of dead enemies was taboo to whoever killed him?
We'll probably never be able to extrapolate that level of detail - it's amazing what we have already.
Or maybe it was an intra-community murder, and the axe was unique and notable enough that it would have been a visible sign of guilt? Like stealing someone's car today. There are a few scenarios that make sense, yeah. But a lot that don't. Like, someone stealing Ötzi's sheep surely would have taken the axe too. It's so tantalizing, like, it means something, we just don't know what.
This is amazing! We all want to know about where we came from. The detail about prehistoric life ties us "modern humans" to the humanity of long ago. This man had a story and the analysis has told part of it. I encourage folks to embrace their roots by any means and check out the 2017 Film "Iceman", a well made and fascinating adventure film constructing "1 possible" story of Otzi's life leading to his death. This is NOT a documentary, though there are also great doc portraits of the finding and research around him and his belongings. The above film was very moving to me, showing his humanity and similarities to us: He made love, he leads religious rituals, he kissed his family goodbye, went to work, came back to try and defend his clan, and then in the tradition of a Western, sought the criminals and tracked them for revenge. Check it out.
My impression is Otzi was not a high-status member of his village. Just the opposite. I believe he was banished from his village because he "appropriated" his equipment rather than make his own, and his villagers finally got fed up with his stealing their stuff. Truthfully he'd never really been liked by the villagers---he wasn't married, he didn't hunt for the village, he wasn't cordial or friendly with anyone. In fact, he was sneaky and made people suspicious. On the other hand, being banished didn't bother Otzi, he was a true mountain man, a loner with the ability to survive well in the high country, as he had been doing for years. Except he snuck into the wrong neighboring village on the other side of the mountain and finally got caught stealing and tried to outrun the villagers who chased him up the mountain and onto the glacier, and just when Otzi thought he'd escaped, the agrieved owner hit him with a well placed arrow and Otzi died in minutes. If Otzi were a high-ranking man, the killer probably would have honored his body by burying him or returning him to his village, but Otzi was a worthless thief who earned the former owner's contempt and was not worth wasting any time on, so he uttered a few choice curse words and left Otzi's body to rot where he lay on the glacier.
Looks to me that he was on the run after captivity. Long time of malnutrition, half done bow, a relatively fresh cut on his palm. I wonder why he wasn't stripped off of his belongings.
The question about the arrow shaft being removed could be as simple as most arrows were marked to identify which hunter brought down a kill — so by removing the shaft the killer would remain anonymous.
My 7 year old daughter and I are exploring hypotheses and evidence. She has been lobbing theories at me about who killed Otzi. Some good theories. Some outrageous. She imagines wolves were involved. Why? I dunno. She asked an interesting question. Did they get the arrow point out of otzi? Does it match the knapping of Otzi's arrows? If Otzi knew his killer, does the construction of that arrowhead come from the same place or knapper?
You know how you recommend various books on the podcast? Is there a section on the substack I’m missing that lists all these so I don’t have to go back and look for the references within the pod? Thanks much!
This one of my favourite episodes of one of my favourite podcasts. Been to see Otzi at the museum in Bolzano twice. Absolutely amazing - even though it is one of those parts of Italy that remains resolutely Austrian.
I am very glad I signed up for this newsletter.
I'm really intrigued by the fact that all of Ötzi's tools were still there - not stolen by the person who killed him! Particularly that axe. I'm imagining different narratives about why the assault happened, and in so many of them it just doesn't make sense to leave behind something so useful and valuable.
And on the theory of Ötzi as a shepherd ... wouldn't he have a dog? Absence of evidence, yeah, but, sheep would have just walked away with a new owner, and a dog would absolutely have attacked the assailant and probably been killed, so the absence of evidence there is at least suggestive, isn't it?
I'm so, so fascinated by the glimpses of cultural and economic structures. My history interest is at least 60% a form of escapism from modern day politics :) but these glimpses of ancient politics, these wildly different ways humans have organized themselves, are really refreshing and a provoke to the imagination.
An excellent article! I too found it odd that as difficult as it was to create a copper axe it would not be taken. The one hour movie Iceman is definitely worth seeing. I found it on Amazon prime.
At a certain point, it feels impossible to speculate more though - I mean maybe Ötzi was one of a group - he was ambushed and killed and his group scattered, but the assailants didn't feel safe staying to loot the body? Maybe taking the belongings of dead enemies was taboo to whoever killed him?
We'll probably never be able to extrapolate that level of detail - it's amazing what we have already.
Or maybe it was an intra-community murder, and the axe was unique and notable enough that it would have been a visible sign of guilt? Like stealing someone's car today. There are a few scenarios that make sense, yeah. But a lot that don't. Like, someone stealing Ötzi's sheep surely would have taken the axe too. It's so tantalizing, like, it means something, we just don't know what.
this thing taste good
I've read a lot of Otzi material online and listened to several podcast episodes about him but this is by far the best.
This is amazing! We all want to know about where we came from. The detail about prehistoric life ties us "modern humans" to the humanity of long ago. This man had a story and the analysis has told part of it. I encourage folks to embrace their roots by any means and check out the 2017 Film "Iceman", a well made and fascinating adventure film constructing "1 possible" story of Otzi's life leading to his death. This is NOT a documentary, though there are also great doc portraits of the finding and research around him and his belongings. The above film was very moving to me, showing his humanity and similarities to us: He made love, he leads religious rituals, he kissed his family goodbye, went to work, came back to try and defend his clan, and then in the tradition of a Western, sought the criminals and tracked them for revenge. Check it out.
Was Otzi a Thief?
My impression is Otzi was not a high-status member of his village. Just the opposite. I believe he was banished from his village because he "appropriated" his equipment rather than make his own, and his villagers finally got fed up with his stealing their stuff. Truthfully he'd never really been liked by the villagers---he wasn't married, he didn't hunt for the village, he wasn't cordial or friendly with anyone. In fact, he was sneaky and made people suspicious. On the other hand, being banished didn't bother Otzi, he was a true mountain man, a loner with the ability to survive well in the high country, as he had been doing for years. Except he snuck into the wrong neighboring village on the other side of the mountain and finally got caught stealing and tried to outrun the villagers who chased him up the mountain and onto the glacier, and just when Otzi thought he'd escaped, the agrieved owner hit him with a well placed arrow and Otzi died in minutes. If Otzi were a high-ranking man, the killer probably would have honored his body by burying him or returning him to his village, but Otzi was a worthless thief who earned the former owner's contempt and was not worth wasting any time on, so he uttered a few choice curse words and left Otzi's body to rot where he lay on the glacier.
feet
feeeet yum
Cool episode.
Looks to me that he was on the run after captivity. Long time of malnutrition, half done bow, a relatively fresh cut on his palm. I wonder why he wasn't stripped off of his belongings.
Has anyone mentioned that is one of your best episodes? Really love the enthusiasm, super captivating
The question about the arrow shaft being removed could be as simple as most arrows were marked to identify which hunter brought down a kill — so by removing the shaft the killer would remain anonymous.
My 7 year old daughter and I are exploring hypotheses and evidence. She has been lobbing theories at me about who killed Otzi. Some good theories. Some outrageous. She imagines wolves were involved. Why? I dunno. She asked an interesting question. Did they get the arrow point out of otzi? Does it match the knapping of Otzi's arrows? If Otzi knew his killer, does the construction of that arrowhead come from the same place or knapper?
You know how you recommend various books on the podcast? Is there a section on the substack I’m missing that lists all these so I don’t have to go back and look for the references within the pod? Thanks much!
This one of my favourite episodes of one of my favourite podcasts. Been to see Otzi at the museum in Bolzano twice. Absolutely amazing - even though it is one of those parts of Italy that remains resolutely Austrian.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/mesolithic
Great podcast Patrick. I teach this as a CSI to my 6th grade ancient history class.